why did the cooke family sell the redskins?

why did the cooke family sell the redskins?

why did the cooke family sell the redskins?

The league disbanded a year later without ever playing a game. He left Jacqueline a $5million trust fund, but she was never considered for ownership of the team. The Redskins went on to finish last in their division eight times over the next 17 seasons with just one postseason victory. In columbus, Terry Blair used to host a weekly show and ended up getting married to Marvin Hamlisch. He was married to Chalmers at the time of his death. Born in Hamilton, Ontario, Cooke moved with his family to The Beaches area of Toronto in 1921, where he attended Malvern Collegiate Institute.[1]. I wish all the Redskins fans many Super Bowls. He had taken some delight in knowing his decision would shock people. This was a self-made man, a bold thinker and brilliant businessman, I wrote the day after he died, who could be equal parts charm, culture and charisma while displaying a streak of crude and occasionally cruel incivility, arrogant bluster and unforgiving vindictiveness.. "Jack Kent Cooke 'Skins owner has done pretty well since dropping out of high school," Ken McKee, "Jack Kent Cooke buys US cable-TV system,". NFL teams . People also asked. Call us at (425) 485-6059. [1] It ended with a $1 million ($3,000,000 in current dollar terms) divorce settlement. When Cooke and their mother divorced, John sided with their father, while Ralph sided with their mother. (Andre Chung/for The Washington Post). This is what the word means to my family. When a low-income kid gets a bad grade, he immediately thinks, I dont belong, Levy said. Best Interior Designers in Noida. With the support of United States House Congressman Francis E. Walter (D-PA), Cooke quickly became a citizen when both houses of Congress and President Dwight D. Eisenhower approved a waiver of the usual five-year waiting period. she is tired in spanish duolingo; because it was him because it was me; the hekataeon pdf; teuscher chocolate locations; separated but living together benefits; thomas j watson physics; And he has occasionally criticized what has become of the franchise that won three Super Bowls under his familys stewardship. Nguyen Le Answered 7 years ago He . A new Associated Press-GfK poll shows that nationally, "Redskins" still enjoys widespread support. Or purchase a subscription for unlimited access to real news you can count on. Send letters to the . John thought it improved his chances of buying the team and told his father. Despite his efforts, the fans never warmed to it, and it will most likely come and go never having carved its . Jack had the ultimate say in hiring the head coach and general manager, though John certainly offered advice. The sale still required approval by the NFL's owners. February 2, 2017. His dream college was Southern Methodist University in a posh section of Dallas. From left: Sean Martin, Rachel Martin, John Kent Cooke and his wife, Rita Cooke. They have cycled through eight head coaches over the same span. Larry This life was also transformed by a Cooke scholarship. Cooke had been told that there were more than 300,000 former Canadians living within a three-hour drive of Los Angeles, and remarked, "Now I know why they left Canada: They hate hockey! He bred and raced a number of successful horses, notably Flying Continental, sired by Flying Paster, whose wins included the 1990 Jockey Club Gold Cup. He bought the team, then known as the Washington Redskins, from Jack Kent Cooke's estate in 1999. Afterward, he returned to Philadelphia to work for 12+, a nonprofit that encourages low-income students to pursue a college education. Cooke indicated that he wanted the Redskins to remain in the family while at the same time leaving it to a charitable foundation in an attempt to reduce estate taxes. That year, acting on Jacks wishes, the trustees of his estate sold the Redskins and the stadium in Landover, Md., to Daniel Snyder for a reported $800million and used the proceeds to establish the Jack Kent Cooke Foundation. The sale still required approval by the NFLs owners. While owning the Maple Leafs baseball team, Cooke set his sights on bringing Major League Baseball to Toronto. The Redskins are worth $1.7 billion, behind only the Dallas Cowboys and the New England Patriots, and $145 million of that worth comes from "branding," selling things with the Redskins name on it. :laugh: That makes it sound like it's been 100 years. Without protection, any fan can produce and sell Washington Redskins gear without having to pay the league or the team for royalties and wouldn't be in violation of any law for doing so. The path to Super Bowl XXII had been paved in part by the Washington Redskins scabs, who'd left the regulars with a strong . They were divorced in late 1993 after she made headlines in September by driving drunk in the Georgetown section of Washington, D.C. with a man holding onto the hood and pounding on the windshield of her car. Born in Hamilton, Ontario, Cooke moved with his family to The Beaches area of Toronto in 1921, where he attended . In 1979, Cooke sold both the Lakers and the Los Angeles Kings. They reconciled before Ralph died in 1995 of liver failure at age 58. [5] He sold the cable systems in 1989.[6]. This is like a marriage and before you get into any marriage, you have to be careful, Tampa Bay Buccaneers owner Malcolm Glazer said. tim tuttle erica rico split. In my opinion, the sale was totally botched.. Jack Kent Cooke's will didn't leave the team to his son and Danny will not be selling the team in our lifetime. I had the desire and the will even the ingenuity but not enough money to keep the Redskins in my family ," Cooke, whose bid approached $700 million, said in a statement. Four years later, Cooke purchased the Lakers from Bob Short the Washington Senators owner for $5 million. The extra point just got a lot more exciting in Washington. -- Jack Kent Cooke, 1992 First, John may not have been able to afford to buy the team. E-MAIL. John Cooke joined the board of his fathers foundation as soon as it was formed in 2000. In 1951, Cooke ventured into sports, acquiring the minor league Toronto Maple Leafs baseball club. He knows nothing about football. Two reasons why this may not have happened come to mind. Grossmans group included former Redskins Coach Joe Gibbs, while Bonderman partnered with Washington real estate developer and future Nationals owner Ted Lerner. The Redskins struggled in the first half of the season, but went 6-3 over the final nine weeks to finish 7-9." Snyder praised the Cooke familys stewardship of the Redskins franchise and vowed to uphold the legacy the family had created. The current Redskins owner, Daniel Snyder, has taken the same stand as Cooke. Keep supporting great journalism by turning off your ad blocker. And when I'm gone, someone named Cooke is going to run this team. Oh, Cooke's life has been big. Norv, Marty, Gibbs were all good coaches. productos y aplicaciones. Michelle Green and Linda Kramer (November 14, 1988). JACK KENT COOKE IN LOTUSLAND. Some owners considered it a loan and remained concerned that much of Milsteins bid was secured by real estate holdings. Ads boasted that the $23.99 caps, really just . And if the Redskins had faltered under Johns leadership, Cooke told one friend, My own legacy would have been diminished over time. Jack was worried about his own reputation., He also wanted to endow the foundation with enough funds to be a world-class operation and assure that he would be remembered as a great philanthropist. Its a rich, full life just not the one he had envisioned 25 years ago when he occupied an expansive office at Redskins Park as team president and the presumed successor to his father, Jack Kent Cooke, the franchises owner. But for John, the time for what-ifs has passed. filtracion de aire. In August 1998, New York real estate financier Andrew Penson made the first offer for the Redskins and Jack Kent Cooke Stadium before the bidding for the assets officially opened. When reached for a comment by the Washington Post, Snyders spokesman offered an interview, but only on the basis it would replace the story. John Kent Cooke, son of the late Redskins' owner, was outbid by Milstein in the first auction and submitted a new offer reportedly higher than his initial $680 million, but not high enough to . There were a lot of wasted years.. The franchise, which was the last to integrate its . It would turn out to be barely half of the eventual winning bid. [14] Cooke agreed to marry Martin if she signed a prenuptial agreement and aborted the first-trimester fetus she was carrying (as a result of having skipped taking one or two birth control pills). Wake up folks. Joe Gibbs recalls that the first time he met Jack Kent Cooke, in January 1981, Cooke hired him and then outlined the future of the Redskins: "When I step down from running it, after we win some. why did the cooke family sell the redskins? The discounted net present value of lost revenue in the future was embedded in the price paid by Snyder for the Redskins. Daniel Marc Snyder (born November 23, 1964) is an American businessman and owner of the Washington Commanders, an American football team belonging to the National Football League (NFL). He was in a wheelchair. Eleven years earlier, Snyder founded Snyder Communications Inc. with his older sister, Michele. He also developed The Forum in Inglewood, California, and FedExField (named Jack Kent Cooke Stadium when it opened, months after his death) near Landover, Maryland. Then he took his college entrance exams. He also owns newspapers and other media properties in North Carolina and Florida. By high school, Thi started thinking he could be the first in his family to go to college. why did the cooke family sell the redskins?park street, hamilton for sale. I refuse to be used merely to increase the bids of others, since it is well known that I have always wanted to keep the Redskins in my family, Cooke said. Here are some famous fans who stood out in the crowd. Into Lost City of Sports. The Cooke family were the best. 0. why did the cooke family sell the redskins? Born in a small village in Mexico, he was one of 10 siblings. Somewhat soft-spoken and mild-mannered, he and his wife maintain a low profile in Middleburg. But he admires the way Cooke set it up, even if that meant selling the football team he said would always be in his family. In 1966, the NHL announced it intended to sell six new franchises, and Cooke prepared a bid. Denunciations of it as an insult to American Indians reached a point . The franchise remained the Redskins after relocating to Washington, D.C., in 1937, but the future use of that name is doubtful. ", "Lakers Legendary Jerry Buss and His "Rags to Riches" Story Truly One of a Kind,", "Cooke, Buss Confirm Sale of Coast Teams", "Cooke Bequeaths Wealth To Gifted and Poor Youths,", "Jack Kent Cooke, Redskins' Team Owner, Dies at 84,", "Cooke's Will Cuts Out Wife, Keeps Redskins in the Family,", "Jack Kent Cooke's ex-wife ready to tell all about his other ex,", "Jack Kent Cooke, Redskins' Team Owner, Dies at 84", "Cooke Estate To Pay $20 Million To Widow", "Foundation Extends Jack Kent Cooke's Longtime Interests with New Grants,", "Jacqueline Kent Cooke, Auditing Trusts and Estates 101,", "Jack Kent Cooke's Daughter Has Lots Of Moxie, Little Class", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jack_Kent_Cooke&oldid=1119778496, This page was last edited on 3 November 2022, at 10:37. The league failed to get the Cooke estate to show it a $680 million bid from John Kent Cooke, the late owner's son. A 'Redskin' Is the Scalped Head of a Native American, Sold, Like a Pelt, for Cash. In my opinion, the sale was totally botched.. The family shared a cramped basement apartment with an aunt. The commission, still figuring Cooke was bluffing about building a forum, announced it was giving the Blades a three-year lease. His first year at community college, he tried registering for five classes but was told he could take only four until he proved himself a worthy student. There were doctors galore, therapists, nurses, 24 hours a day. Jack Kent Cooke's legacy has become misunderstood. Your most pressing issue is no different than mine. Before that, he had watched several team practices and observed Sparky Anderson, noting the player's leadership qualities and ability to teach younger players from all backgrounds. In the end, Cooke received the Chrysler Building and other properties. John was always the good son. "Williams was first class, Cooke was nickel-and-dime cheap." John lived on a farm about five miles from his fathers Middleburg estate. [15] Cooke's lawyer Milton Gould said: "This is a conspiracy to try to use a little kid as a means of getting money. 2009-03-23 02:37:14. Then he built them a . The Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum Commission, which operated the Sports Arena, supported a competing bid headed by Los Angeles Rams owner Dan Reeves, and advised Cooke that if he won the franchise he would not be allowed to use that facility. Cooke invested a great deal of time and effort into building the current stadium. Under Mr. Cooke's control, the team had a 207-145 record. Jacqueline Kent Cooke, the 29-year-old best known as the daughter of former Redskins owner Jack Kent Cooke, was involved in an anti-semitic assault on New Year's Eve.The incident began before . In 1997, Cooke completed a stadium deal near Landover, Maryland, for a new home for his team. I was an architect working for the Cooke family at the time. After buying the team in 1999 , Snyder changed the name of its stadium from Jack Kent Cooke Stadium to . Cooke did all the talking; John rarely spoke in those situations. That would be an improvement. ART Studio. In return for . Cooke had entered the U.S. broadcasting industry in August 1959 by acquiring Pasadena, California radio station KRLA 1110 (now KRDC) through his brother, Donald Cooke, a U.S. citizen. Snyder and partners were the highest bidders. The Redskins name stuck. Redskins fans would probably take mediocre the word the teams former owners son used to describe the state of the franchise. They have reached the playoffs just five times and have two postseason wins. Menu. 2022-06-21T19:02:13+00:00 difference between general purpose and special purpose processor cheesecake factory butter brand And when he's gone, someone else named Cooke is going to run this team." residential caravan parks scotland . For instance Doug Williams was the first black quarter back to win the superbowl. [17] They remarried in 1995 and remained together until his death. What an unbelievable difference it made in all of our lives. He quit his job, moved his mother and sister in with him in a studio apartment, and paid his sisters medical bills. Some fans came to revile Snyder as a toxic meddler quick to pull the trigger on firing head coaches, signing big-contract, big-bust free agents and putting the wrong people in positions of authority. Published by at February 16, 2022. Eight groups were invited to submit a second round of bids due Dec. 22. For years, team owners of the franchise have insisted that the name is not offensive and would never be changed. It was the first time in my life Id ever been told, You missed the cut, he said. In May of 1999, in the then largest purchase in sports history, Snyder bought the Washington Redskins and the stadium they played in for $750 million from Jack Kent Cooke's estate. He began with nothing during The Great Depression, selling encyclopedias. Dad was not healthy at that point, John recalled. He ran his media businesses, threw himself into the winery and helped oversee the foundation. Cooke inherited a team with a football man in charge and did not make a change until George Allen stepped down. In 1964, Anderson accepted the offer. Born in Hamilton, Ontario, Cooke started selling encyclopedias door-to-door at age 14. Grossman also reentered the bidding with the support of FedEx founder and chairman Fred Smith, but withdrew his roughly $800 million offer shortly after Cooke bowed out. Categories . There are even fewer around who remember what Cooke was like. The problem was that Cooke did not have enough assets to fulfill both of those requests when his estate entered the probate process. The two became partners in 1941, buying radio stations and newspapers in Ontario and Quebec. The foundation had net assets of $634million as of May 31, according to its annual report. Every student raised their hand, he said. In his way Cooke was a prince." The enigmatic owner died in 1997, just as the curtains unveiled on the new Redskin . In 1985, Cooke bought the Los Angeles Daily News for $176 million. Then he paused to reconsider. His father went to prison and died when Raul was 3. Join Us In 2022! Neuro spine Super Speciality Clinic - Above Apollo Pharmacy, Bangarpet Circle, Kolar - Bangarpet Road, Kolar Town. LARGER THAN LIFE. Some sources, including noted money-grubbers Forbes (who, despite what some believe, are NOT on our side, as they are elitists and on their own side), claim $800 . I have seen many-a-change at Redskins Park. He was still mentally okay, but he was also worried. When we do budgeting, he is right there.. The recent weeks have been extremely unkind to Washington Redskins owner Daniel Snyder. Its no longer one of the premier sports franchises in the United States.. The only way to judge whether Jack Kent Cookes final act of egotism and generosity was worth depriving his only living son of the team he loved is to look at what it has wrought. Their stadium is a cash machine.". Early Origins of the Cooke family. Cooke's credit cards were missing, but $108 in cash was still on him. At a recent weekend retreat for Cooke Scholars, he asked students to raise their hand if they thought the foundation had made a mistake in choosing them. why did the cooke family sell the redskins?miss kitty black ink crew net worth why did the cooke family sell the redskins? why did the cooke family sell the redskins? Their early bid was declined, but Milstein and Snyder remained in the running, and on Jan. 10, 1999, the duo signed an agreement to buy the Redskins for approximately $800 million. His final will stipulated that the bulk of his estate, which Forbes magazine estimated at the time to be worth about $800million, be used to set up the foundation that now bears his name. The Lakers during Cooke's ownership reached seven NBA Finals and won the 1972 NBA Finals. His revised bid was backed by family members, as well as Mortimer Zuckerman and Fred Drasner, original investors in Snyder Communication, and included $350 million in equity. Snyder has failed to act meaningfully on rebranding their racist name in a timely manner (and, with a few weeks until pre-season is supposed to start, has yet to begin to prepare for a serious name change on helmets, jerseys, etc.) More information coming soon! The cooke family estate was forced to sell the redskins prior to the 1999 season to whom did they sell the team? why did joe jonas leave the voice australia. Bethesda Man To Make Bid For Redskins, read the headline in The Washington Post on Nov. 7, 1998, the first mention of Snyders interest in purchasing the football team he grew up following. ambulance tailgate conversion Aaron Schatz/Football Outsiders joined the show to discuss why Football Outsiders ranks the '91 Redskins as the greatest NFL team of all-time. He also said his father often talked about giving scholarships to poor students. par ; juillet 3, 2022 . But after Joe Gibbs left in the early 90s, and the Cooke family sold the team, the Redskins have been mired more or less in mediocrity. Cooke was married five times, however his last two marriages were to the same woman, Marlene Ramallo Chalmers. She will get money but the woman doesn't deserve anythere have been few courtesans in the history of the world who have been as well rewarded as this one."[15]. Milstein and Snyder attempted to preempt the process and pressure the trustees into making a quick decision by offering more than $700 million in cash, with the stipulation that the offer would expire one day after the rest of the bids were due. Nearly four in five Americans don't think the team should change its name, the survey found. He moved to the. At critical moments, he is right there. Many Cooke Scholars grew up in families well below the poverty line and might never have been able to continue their educations without the foundations help. He really was quite amazing.. Learn more about your ad choices. Call 800-SUSHI (800-78744) markdown anchor link to header; 2 family homes for sale brooklyn, ny 11209; eli broad college of business gpa requirement; bin collection schedule charles sturt; why did the cooke family sell the redskins? At the time, Canada and the U.S. both had laws prohibiting foreign control of radio and TV stations. He was selling soap in Northern Ontario for Colgate-Palmolive in 1936 when he met Roy Thomson, who hired Cooke to run radio station CJCS in Stratford, Ontario. [12], Cooke's third marriage on July 24, 1987, to Suzanne Elizabeth Martin, a college dropout aged 31 at the time and 43 years his junior, was even shorter at 73 days. NFL survey reveals what players really think about teams and its no surprise this one is at the bottom, Commanders owner took secret $55M loan, charged $4.M to have logo on his jet, Rockets owner enters competition to purchase Commanders, Jeff Bezos benched from Commanders sale as bids come up short: sources. In 1960, Cooke lost a bid to obtain a licence for the first privately-owned TV station in Toronto. The franchise is in disarray. Not only did he have fun being the owner of the Redskins, he was good at the job. The stadium, still in use by the franchise to this day, was posthumously named Jack Kent Cooke Stadium. League officials informed the trustees they would waive several financial requirements for John Kent Cooke, including a minimum amount of personal wealth required above the money included in his bid. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Thanks for contacting us. why did the cooke family sell the redskins?ronald davis obituary michigan danny welbeck trophies. . At the end of his first day, he took home over $20 to his mother, and later claimed, "I think that was the proudest moment of my life." Relevant here is that His estate's job after he died was getting the most money possible from the sale of the Redskins. One of the reasons the trustees gave it to Snyder was that they were worried about a lawsuit, he said. John oversaw the finances, stadium operations, office and front office personnel everything but football. He also was very practical. John Kent Cooke owns the Boxwood Estate Winery. And when hes gone, someone else named Cooke is going to run this team., Instead, however, he reportedly changed his will eight times over the last 10 years of his life. Tests revealed that at the time of his death, Sam Cooke's blood alcohol level was .16 and .08, and he was considered the point of being legally too drunk to drive. For those who werent here when Jack Kent Cooke died in 1997, it can be hard to grasp how shocking it was when his estate said it was putting the Redskins up for sale. For years, he was a constant presence there, his fathers stand-in because Jack preferred to work out of his Middleburg farm. Steven Hirsch. Washington Redskins [ edit] In 1961, Cooke purchased a 25% interest in the Washington Redskins after team owner and founder George Preston Marshall became incapacitated by a stroke; Cooke became majority owner in 1974 and sole owner in 1985. Some sources, including noted money-grubbers Forbes (who, despite what some believe, are NOT on our side, as they are elitists and on their own side), claim $800 . Former Redskins owner Jack Kent Cooke died in April 1997, leaving most of his estate to fund a college scholarship in his name. In his way Cooke was a prince." MEMBER LOGIN. 1996 olympic figure skating medalists; bva decision timeline 2019; ethical legislation definition health and social care; north platte health pavilion Cooke doesn't like the World League to start with, and wouldn't be thrilled to have a team from that league playing at RFK Stadium. Cooke won the franchise, and paid $2 million for the new Los Angeles NHL club, which he called the "Kings." He travels extensively, loves the water and prides himself on his prowess around boats. The executors and their representatives stated that accepting the highest bid was their fiduciary obligation, required to fulfill my fathers wishes and comply with the law, he wrote in a statement. Learn how and when to remove this template message, "A Consortium Will Acquire Cooke's Cable TV Systems", "Owning Up to the Truth: Cooke Was the Best,", "Raiders Return to Oakland: Coliseum Commission Turns L.A. [4] A year later, he acquired another cable TV company. Said so himself. We will fully satisfy the NFL. The two eventually became partners and started buying newspapers and radio stations. why did the cooke family sell the redskins? Tuition at the time was over $40,000 a year. Highlighting the toxic workplace culture at the organisation, multiple names from Dan Snyder's internal . John Cooke disagrees with those who say that his father didnt think he was up for the job of owner. The marketing services company grew from $43 million in revenue in 1995 to $333 million in revenue in 1997, and Snyder, who took marketing classes at Maryland, in 1996 became the youngest person to head a company listed on the New York Stock Exchange. The . Redskins Fan. The presiding judge during the bench trial was Joseph Wapner, who later became famous as the judge on television's The People's Court. Football teams make money a number of ways, * Revenue sharing from: * * Aparell and other licensing * TV deals * Stadium naming rights * Sponsorships * Ticket sales and Concessions You put all that together and out. In her divorce action, where her lawyers used the child as a "wedge", Martin sought $15 million ($36,000,000 in current dollar terms) from Cooke, plus $18,000 ($43,000 in current dollar terms) a month in alimony and child support. That same year, Cooke bought a 25% interest in the Redskins. On October 31, 1980, Cooke married Jeanne Maxwell Williams, a sculptor from Las Vegas. The enigmatic owner died in 1997, just as the curtains unveiled on the new Redskin . Within weeks of being turned down for the Toronto TV licence, Cooke applied for U.S. citizenship. Potential buyers see dollar signs and the tradition of one of the NFLs great franchises, Chris Dunlavey of the D.C. firm Brailsford & Dunlavey told The Post. Not only because the name hurts certain groups of people while it serves nobody in a positive sense, but also because the man who originally brought the team from Boston for the 1937 season was the most toxic racist in the NFL's history. In 2017, Cooke, who also owns Boxwood Winery in Middleburg, told former Post reporter Leonard Shapiro he thought one of the reasons the trustees agreed to sell the team to Snyder was that they feared a lawsuit. She was released on her own recognizance and the case was adjourned to Feb. 15. Too many minorities attend football games seemed to be the argument of the day. The league wanted to be able to consider John Kent Cooke's bid, and perhaps find a way to keep the team in the Cooke family. . Cooke, who had famously informed a reporter that "I don't intend to die,"[11] died of congestive heart failure on April 6, 1997, at George Washington University Hospital in Washington, D.C.[18] A memorial service was held at Trinity Episcopal Church in Upperville, Virginia, on April 10 and was attended by more than 400 Washington and sports dignitaries. You want to win, we want to win, and were going to deliver that.. Snyder began working to secure financing to match the groups $800 million offer without Milsteins support. That would be an improvement. July 4 1964 Barbara Moon. 20 numbers that explain Daniel Snyders 20 years with the Redskins, Jonathan Allen, Redskins defensive line hope to lead resurgence, Case Keenum and Dwayne Haskins kick off Redskins QB competition, Reuben Foster injury is painful for Redskins, who viewed him as a potential team leader. Today, the Jack Kent Cooke Foundation is housed in a gleaming metal and glass building tucked in an office park off Route 7, near Leesburg. "Billionaire bully's revenge: How Jack Kent Cooke cut 'Bolivian Bombshell' Marlene out of his will," Hugh Davies. Cooke gradually bought the Redskins over 25 years, finally taking full ownership in 1985. [11] Cooke and Carnegie had two sons: John Kent Cooke and Ralph Kent Cooke. . He tried to establish a Redskins charge card that season-ticket . George Marshall, a Washington laundry kingpin, decides on Redskins. He couldnt walk. Washington Commanders defensive coordinator Jack Del Rio issued an apology on Wednesday, just hours after referring to the riots last year at the U.S. Capitol as a "dustup." methodjosh in jail; michigan land bank authority.

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why did the cooke family sell the redskins?

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why did the cooke family sell the redskins?